First, Tim digs back into the South African crates with a mix of 1990s kwaito music, a genre of house records pitched down with big vocals on top.

Interview Long Description: DJ Maphorisa discusses his relentless drive to innovate, moving seamlessly across genres like amapiano, gqom, and currently, afrotech. Maphorisa explains that he thrives on the “uncomfortable feeling” of experimenting with new sounds to avoid creative stagnation. A major highlight of the discussion is his upcoming Scorpion Kings concert at Johannesburg’s FNB Stadium, where he aims to fill 95,000 seats—a massive leap from their previous 50,000-attendee show. He humbly expresses gratitude for this hometown support while teasing a star-studded lineup of guest artists.

The conversation also delves into the technical nuances of globalizing regional genres. Maphorisa notes that amapiano’s slower 113 BPM makes it challenging to penetrate fast-paced European club scenes like Ibiza, contrasting it with the higher tempos of afrotech and the Nigerian preference for faster beats. He reflects on how genres like gqom can stagnate if they become too dark and fast without melodic progression. Finally, Maphorisa shares his fascinating hit-making process, using the track “Money Constant” with Wizkid as a prime example. He reveals that he tests exclusive beats live in clubs to gauge crowd reactions, sometimes waiting years and leveraging social media virality before finalizing a track, ensuring it is a guaranteed hit.

Interview Short: The South African superstar on his Johannesburg stadium show.

Interview Transcript

Tim Sweeney: 00:00 My guest today has done Cueto, House, Gqom, Afrobeats, and Amapiano, and he keeps it moving. In September, he’s filling a 95,000 seat stadium with the sound he helped take global. He’s one half of the Scorpion Kings, DJ Maphorisa.

DJ Maphorisa: 00:16 Yes.

Tim Sweeney: 00:16 Welcome to Beats in Space.

DJ Maphorisa: 00:17 Thank you, sir. Thank you for having me.

Tim Sweeney: 00:19 Man, no, thank you.

00:20 Now, we were talking about this before, and you’ve said this before, that you’re always switching genres. That’s your thing. And you’re going to do it for us again on this mix.

DJ Maphorisa: 00:32 Yes, sir. Yes, sir.

Tim Sweeney: 00:34 But with switching genres, what is it in your gut that’s telling you to move from one to the other?

DJ Maphorisa: 00:39 I think I like the uncomfortable feeling. I don’t like it easy. I like to experiment. I like to discover and learn new stuff. So once I feel like I’ve achieved a certain peak with the sound, I move to the next one, just even to refresh so that even if I go back to that one, at least I have a different ear and different inspiration and stuff. So I don’t like staying in the same place for a long time.

Tim Sweeney: 01:07 Right now, where do you feel yourself moving?

DJ Maphorisa: 01:11 Now, I’m moving into the Afro Tech. I love the Afro Tech and I’ve been there. It’s an Afro house. I’ve been doing Afro House with Mafikizolo, Wizkid, Davido, Uhuru, with Black Coffee also. I’ve been in that space.

01:28 So when I heard about Amapiano and then when I was discovering it and stuff, I got interested. I got interested and I really liked the movement. I like the culture. They have a solid culture in my hood. In South Africa, it’s like Amapiano is really solid and it’s very supportive. So every DJ, every musician support each other. So it always keeps on going. It doesn’t stop. Maybe the hype can go down, but the culture is still moving.

Tim Sweeney: 01:59 But it doesn’t seem like the hype’s going down when you’re selling out a giant stadium in Johannesburg.

DJ Maphorisa: 02:05 I guess, I guess.

02:05 But sometimes it’s like… Because I feel like maybe we did a lot of Amapiano. When 3-step came, it was an exciting sound. You know what I’m saying? And then people had to… And also we needed that to refresh so that the sound also has to evolve.

02:23 Shout out to everyone who’s got the tickets. Man, we excited. 19th September, FNB Stadium, Johannesburg. It was going to be amazing, man. So we’ll be representing Amapiano. Last year, we did it. It was almost 50,000 people. It was in Pretoria, our city where we come from. It was Loftus stadium. So this year we’re doing it bigger.

Tim Sweeney: 02:44 Twice as big.

DJ Maphorisa: 02:45 Yes.

Tim Sweeney: 02:45 How does that feel to sell that out, to go into a thing that huge?

DJ Maphorisa: 02:50 Overwhelmed. And also, man, we humbled and grateful. They’re showing love. They’re showing love, especially… They’re saying charity begins at home. Especially when you sing, we’re getting love from where you’re from. It really means a lot.

Tim Sweeney: 03:08 Who are you bringing? Because I know there’s families coming to this one, right? So who’s part of the family that’s coming out for Scorpion Kings?

DJ Maphorisa: 03:15 Oh my gosh. Sjava. There’s an international… We just need to seal the contract, but someone international is coming.

03:26 Sjava, Mafikizolo. I’m bringing Ringo Madlingozi, Ami Faku. Busiswa. Oh, man. Msaki, Mawhoo, Nkosazana Daughter. It’s going to be crazy. There’s more. There’s more. It’s just that [inaudible 00:03:47].

Tim Sweeney: 03:48 Are you going to record it so we’re going to be able to hear it? Us over here who are not going to be there. Is that-

DJ Maphorisa: 03:52 We’re going to record it.

Tim Sweeney: 03:52 You’re going to record it?

DJ Maphorisa: 03:53 Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Yes, sir.

Tim Sweeney: 03:55 You used to throw parties as well. You’re a promoter.

DJ Maphorisa: 04:01 I’m a promoter, yes.

Tim Sweeney: 04:01 Right? To get to this level, did you ever think about that when you first started? Was there a vision in your head about stadiums?

DJ Maphorisa: 04:11 Yeah. It’s been, it’s been. Because that’s another level. It’s like… Stadium status is another level. And then it also encourages you to do more and to not give up. You know what I mean? Think of Madison Square Garden and think of O2 London, think of stadiums outside South Africa. So it’s still going. The culture still have to hold it down.

Tim Sweeney: 04:36 Is that the goal after? You’re going to do Madison Square Garden? O2 in London?

DJ Maphorisa: 04:41 Yes. Yes.

Tim Sweeney: 04:42 That’s the next goals. I like that.

DJ Maphorisa: 04:44 That’s the goals, yeah.

Tim Sweeney: 04:44 No. Going big.

DJ Maphorisa: 04:44 Yeah.

Tim Sweeney: 04:46 But we talked about this before, when you’re saying that you’re moving on, moving into Afro House, Afro Tech, but you’re not moving on.

DJ Maphorisa: 04:55 Let’s say I’m going back.

Tim Sweeney: 04:57 Going back, yes. Because Amapiano is always a party.

DJ Maphorisa: 05:02 Still, bro. It’s doing well. And then I can’t leave it like that. I need to hold it down till… I don’t think it’s going to go anywhere, but you know what I mean? Where it’s at now, I’m happy to do other things. Because there’s still cups that are small, they’re still killing it. There’s my boy called Xduppy that’s killing it. He’s a young boy. He’s like 23. So he’s doing well. He’s in my stable new money game. And other people are still kicking it in, kicking it with it. So I’m happy that I can still bounce back, come this side.

Tim Sweeney: 05:41 But do you see in your head a show, an Afro House, Afro Tech show at FNB Stadium too? Do you see this?

DJ Maphorisa: 05:57 Yes. I see that. I see that. I see that. I see that. I see that. It’s just that there’s a lot of work that we need to do in SA with Afro House and the culture. And then the culture is growing.

06:01 Shout out to Shimza. He’s doing his show, Kunye, and then he’s got a big Afro House, Afro Tech event.

06:11 I see it. I see it growing. So even him with his events, it’s like every gig is he grows, he grows. The audience also grow. Yeah.

Tim Sweeney: 06:23 Well, and speaking of that, just a little bit ago you were opening for Black Coffee and Ibiza at Hï.

DJ Maphorisa: 06:33 At Hï, yes.

Tim Sweeney: 06:33 Right?

DJ Maphorisa: 06:33 With Kabza De Small.

Tim Sweeney: 06:34 How was that? What were you representing there when you were playing that?

DJ Maphorisa: 06:36 Afro. That was Afro Tech. Yeah, that’s Afro Tech. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

06:40 Obviously, with Ibiza, Ampiano couldn’t penetrate because it’s very slow. It’s 113 BPM. And then Ibiza, most of the time, it’s 120 upwards. So there’s a big difference. And then we can’t play Amapiano like that. It sounds weird because the difference of the tempo is far apart. That’s the main reason why Amapiano couldn’t penetrate Ibiza.

Tim Sweeney: 07:09 Because I’ve seen you comment before that with Amapiano, people dance a certain way and then with Afro House-

DJ Maphorisa: 07:15 Yeah, it is. Yeah.

Tim Sweeney: 07:15 … it’s another style of dance, right?

DJ Maphorisa: 07:17 It’s another style, yeah.

07:19 Maybe in the future, maybe we’ll match the two. I don’t know. You know what I’m saying? With elements and stuff, but I guess we have to take elements from Amapiano and add them into the Afro Tech space, which means it’s going to be faster, especially Europe and a lot of countries that really like it fast.

Tim Sweeney: 07:41 They do.

DJ Maphorisa: 07:42 You know what I mean? They really like it fast.

Tim Sweeney: 07:42 Very fast.

DJ Maphorisa: 07:45 That’s where I saw the difference. It’s like, oh, actually it’s going to be really tough, Amapiano, to penetrate other territories.

Tim Sweeney: 07:57 And when you say it sounds weird, it sounds funny when it’s sped up more, is that specifically the log drum or is it the kick, the bass that’s happening that when-

DJ Maphorisa: 08:09 I think it’s A bounce. It’s everything. And my fellow brothers, Nigerians, they’re the ones who like to take it fast so I don’t think they will play Amapiano with the 130 BPM. I think they’re going 118. So they’re-

Tim Sweeney: 08:24 They push it.

DJ Maphorisa: 08:26 My brothers, they push it because it’s the dancing style. When it’s 113, it’s really slow. So for the ones who relaxed, you know what I’m saying? But now 118, 120, it’s the ones that want to move. And I get it and I get it.

Tim Sweeney: 08:43 I’ve also heard you said when a genre gets dark and fast, the song starts sounding the same. And you said that about Gqom before.

DJ Maphorisa: 08:53 Oh, yeah?

Tim Sweeney: 08:53 Yeah, yeah.

DJ Maphorisa: 08:53 What?

Tim Sweeney: 08:54 You said when a genre gets dark and fast, the songs start sounding the same and you can feel that Gqom hitting its sell by date because it was just going too fast and too dark.

DJ Maphorisa: 09:05 Oh, okay. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Okay.

Tim Sweeney: 09:07 You remember this sound?

DJ Maphorisa: 09:08 Yeah, yeah. No, no, no.

Tim Sweeney: 09:08 I’m not making anything up, right?

DJ Maphorisa: 09:08 No, no.

Tim Sweeney: 09:08 I’m not misquoting you here.

DJ Maphorisa: 09:15 Gqom is as far as killing, bro… I’m not even trying to say anything bad, but it’s like it doesn’t really go… It’s here. And then I want it here, you know what I’m saying? That’s the style. It doesn’t need a lot of elements where you make it pop or you give it progression. It just want it dark and just those elements, those samples, those screams and shouts and stuff. And that’s how it is.

09:43 Even in Amapiano space, there’s a style where it’s like the instrumentals where DJs will play instrumentals only and it’s like that. It doesn’t go up, it doesn’t go down.

09:55 So then I feel like Thukzin added some few elements there, then it breached out. It went different wings because now he put in a chord progression and then he put in a hook and a verse and a vocals and stuff.

10:13 Because there’s an underground home where there’s no music. There’s no lyrics. And it’s banging in the club. It’s banging in the club but obviously, for radio and other things, you don’t hit. You know what I’m saying?

Tim Sweeney: 10:26 Yeah, exactly.

DJ Maphorisa: 10:27 So if you wanted to hit the radio sp